Welcome to the Fit Fundraising Podcast, where we bring you game-changing fundraising topics, direct from our meetings with major donors and non-profits nationwide. While most consultants are busy giving advice, Fit Fundraising stays on the front lines with non-profits and major donors. This podcast is a glimpse into our world of work with non-profits as we get on the field with them and successfully model fundraising. Get ready to get fit with the hottest show in fund development, Fit Fundraising.
Roy Jones
Hi, this is Roy Jones and you’ve joined the FIT Fundraising Podcast. Thanks so much, for joining us today. We are going to have another exciting time and I’ve got a great guest today.
We’re going to be attacking head on what’s going on in our economy right now and how it’s impacting nonprofit organizations. So let me just jump right into it. Donna Lucas is the marketing officer of Joni and Friends in their International Disability Center. Donna spent more than 30 years working in product development, marketing, brand management for such powerhouse brands as Adidas USA, United Colors of Benetton, K-Swiss, the Dickies Workwear brand at VF Corp.
As a strategic brand and marketing executive, she is an expert. Trust me when I tell you that. Her years of experience with high profile brands and strategy, her leadership at Joni and Friends have well positioned her in the ministry for a long future.
Donna holds a bachelor’s degree in bachelor of arts degree and a master’s degree in marketing from Philadelphia University. She’s a mom of three incredible daughters and lives in Southern California with her husband Jack. Donna, welcome to the Fit Fundraising Podcast.
Donna Lucas
Thank you so much,, Roy. What a blessing it is to be here today. Just a great opportunity.
Roy Jones
We are so honored to have you. I had the opportunity to hear Joni speak in 1977 and 1978 when I was a college freshman and sophomore at Liberty University. she impacted my life then and I’ve watched her incredible journey and the amazing organization you all have built. is just something very special.
Donna Lucas
Absolutely incredible Roy. That woman makes an impression on everyone. Your experience with her is very common.
Roy Jones
Well, before we get into our discussion today, would you take just a minute and talk about Joni and Joni and friends, the ministry as a whole? Tell us about that. I know our listeners would love to know more about Joni and
Donna Lucas
Yeah, well what an honor it is to serve at this ministry. As you mentioned,, Roy, when you meet Joni, she makes an impact on your life. And she does that not only with people she meets outside the organization, she does that with every one of us inside the organization. But I have the opportunity to serve as chief marketing officer. And in that role, I get to lead not only our marketing teams, but our development teams and our response team.
We are a Christian ministry with a vision that someday every person in the world with a disability is going to find hope, dignity, and their place in the body of Christ. And we do that in so many different ways. Probably one of the most well-known ways is through Joni’s actual radio program, which is on air every single day in over thousand markets across the United States and 16 countries around the world. But we also are known for our Wheels for the World program, where we
collect used wheelchairs here in the United States. We send them to 13 different prison restoration centers here in the United States where prisoners learn skills, they restore wheelchairs, they hear the gospel, they restore them to like new condition. And then we send those wheelchairs around to 26 countries around the world with a team of physical therapists, occupational therapists, mechanics, and others who then individually fit that wheelchair.
to each unique person’s needs. And it’s just a blessing. They share the gospel. They connect them with the local church. It’s an opportunity, the wheelchair is that entree to be able to share Christ with people around the world. Just a great ministry to be a part of.
Roy Jones
Wow. And you’re headquartered where?
Donna Lucas
We are headquartered in Agoura Hills, California. And then we have 19 different offices all around the United States that serve locally here in the US, as well as our partners internationally.
Roy Jones
Wow. What an amazing ministry. Just so honored to have you with us today, Donna. Let’s kind of jump into it. You know, the last time we talked, we were just focusing on what’s going on in the economy. It’s been a roller coaster ride to say the least. saw one industry report that said giving has gone down just over the last 90 days, more than 35 % compared to this time last year. And it’s a tough thing.
What’s Joni and friends done with their fundraising and marketing practices when they face economic downturns like this?
Donna Lucas
Yeah,, Roy, that’s a scary statistic. 35 % in 90 days. I think for us, it’s been mostly stay the course. Really look at fundraising as a long game, not a sprint. And I really will challenge our team. Every year, there’s some challenge that faces us. And while this year, it seems to be…
a really deep, unique challenge. I truly believe when we stay the course, when we just keep going, keep the pedal down, keep moving, I think that’s really what we’re doing. Probably the most consistent thing that we can do is have our donors, they are comfortable and confident in the ministry. And so if we make a lot of jumps and shifts, it’s going to cause our donor base to think.
what’s going on over there? You know, we’re used to hearing from them a certain way. We’re used to things this way. And I think when times are uncertain, that consistency is the key.
Roy Jones
Wow. I’ve seen some nonprofits, candidly, I’ve worked for some nonprofits when crisis came, they’d hit the brakes or suspend fundraising for a period of time or cancel events. I love the, the illustration of staying calm in the storm. I just think it’s wise advice. I’ve seen so many, you know, nonprofits just scale back and set on the sidelines saying they’re going to, they’re going to wait, wait it out. What would you say to those leaders who haven’t?
yet, you know, embrace the changing fundraising climate. What are they risk by setting it out? you know, again, I love the, just the, the picture you draw of, of staying calm in the middle of the storm and, how that is reassuring to donors.
Donna Lucas
Yeah, I think that, you know, as you’re talking here, I’m thinking of advice that was given to me when I was very young, one of my consumer products bosses. When things were going bad and you put your head down, right, and you’re looking down at what your plan is, he would always tell us, look up. He would always say, look up and look around. And I think that’s so important that as you’re calm in the storm, you have to raise your head, right? You can’t keep looking.
down at what am I going to do next? What is the next thing on my task list? What is the next thing? You have to look up, especially as the leader. You have to look around. You have to look for those little bombs that are dropping your direction, because if you have your head down, those bombs and those arrows, they surprise you. And so I would say, especially for the leader, look up, look around, you see what’s happening in the marketplace. And if you can do that, you can really look and see what is changing, know, what
has changed in the landscape around me because everything has changed, right? Nothing in our world is the same as it was back in 2019, and it’s never gonna go back there. And for a nonprofit, I think that it’s so easy to put our head down and try and press forward.
But if we aren’t looking up, if we aren’t looking around us, we really have to know what’s coming at us. And that advice has run true all throughout my career. Challenges hit. Look up, look around, see where those challenges are coming from. He used to call them little bombs. He called little bombs dropping on you. And if you can see the little bomb coming your direction, you could react to it. But if it surprises you, then you’re in trouble. And I think that advice has always been really, really strong.
Roy Jones
Yeah, that’s sage advice. remember getting similar advice and unlike you, I started in fund development, but working on the political side, not the corporate branding side, working for political candidates. And I remember one political consultant telling me if you can’t fix it. And you know, that kind of brings me to the, thought, you know, donors know what’s going on right now within the nonprofit world. They know giving is down. They know.
the impact that inflation and initially, know, tariffs have had on the economy and how that has negatively affected ministries. What’s your feeling about just having direct conversations with top donors about that? And, you know, again, kind of featuring this challenge that we’re all going through.
Donna Lucas
Yeah, know,, Roy, that’s interesting that you bring up the political environment too. I think that I’m in agreement with you. Donors are first and foremost consumers. And from a fundraising perspective, I think one of the things that we do differently, maybe at Joni & Friends, is we really focus on the donor and their consumer behavior, because they’re first and foremost consumers. So they know, right? They know that prices are going up. They know that inflation.
is hitting their bottom line as well as everyone else’s bottom line. I think from a perspective of major donors, I think that that is a nuanced conversation, right? It is how deeply you’ve created your relationship with that major donor to kind of have that savvy on if or when you think that’s going to be something you should bring up. So I think it’s a savvy conversation because I also think that
they need to see in this time period, even though giving may be down, we might see all these challenges, costs to do ministry are going up. I think they innately know that, but whatever we share with them, we need to share with the confidence that we’re addressing it, we know how to deal with it, and they don’t want to give to an organization they think is struggling. They want to give to an organization they have confidence in.
that is going to continue to do the work they’re saying they’re doing. It goes back to a quote, and I’m going to misquote it probably, but people don’t give to you because they believe you’re going to do what you say you’re going to do. That’s why people give to an organization, because they believe that you are going to do what you say you’re going to do. And that’s, think, we, from a confidence level with a major donor,
I would want them to know even in the height of challenge, we are laying our ministry at the feet of the Lord and we are concentrating on hearing from God on where this goes, but we are moving forward. We are continuing to serve. We are continuing to deliver wheelchairs, to do family retreats, to do everything that they believe in that the organization is doing even amidst the challenge. And so think that projecting that
confidence that ministry still is happening to me is the most important thing with a major donor.
Roy Jones
Good. Let’s get into some of the techniques. Let’s, you know, I’m just thinking about the thing I wrestle with almost every week, you know, with, with is the shift in frequency of email deals by nonprofits association of fundraising professionals have done study after study year after year. And
You know, have validated that the average donor gives to seven to 10 different charities and that that’s a lot of mail in the mailbox. know some nonprofits that are doing an appeal every business day. I know others that are doing at least two appeals a week. That’s a lot of frequency. What’s your thoughts on just how do you cut through that email box clutter to get the donor’s attention?
Donna Lucas
I think there’s so many channels,, Roy, that it becomes an omni-channel approach, right? You have to approach a donor in every place that they live, right? I constantly say to our team, we have to be there where the constituents live. And that doesn’t mean their physical address. That means digitally where are they living. And today, every one of us live in so many unique channels every single day. That’s where it’s important that they show up. And one, think,
Email drip campaigns are important. You really have to look at if somebody didn’t even open it, then they didn’t see the content. Is it a subject line? You have to drip it. You have to say, opened it, but they didn’t respond. So what is the different message? You constantly have to be thinking about why they didn’t respond to an email.
But if you don’t follow the email into their other digital footprints, you’re going to lose your momentum that you start. to me, it isn’t about one channel, but it is about how all of them work together. Wow. Another fun fact. This is crazy number,, Roy, that I heard. it’s a couple years old now. But you’ll remember the old adage, right, that someone had to see your message seven times.
Roy Jones
Go ahead.
Donna Lucas
before they would even remember or recognize it. Well, this is a couple years old, but Google said it’s now 23.7 times that they have to see your message. That’s terrifying, right? I think that’s a terrifying number. that’s how much… it’s terrifying.
Roy Jones
Become a strategy.
Donna Lucas
But if you think about it, that’s how many messages are coming at someone on a given day. So if they get an email in their inbox, they say, Joni and friends, sending me an email, I’ll look at it later. They maybe haven’t deleted you yet, but they’ll say, I’ll look at it later. And then a couple hours later, they’re on Instagram, and they see a post. And they see a story in seven seconds or eight seconds. They see a little story on Instagram. And then they maybe come back later, and they’re on Facebook with their mom.
They see another ad there. I think that it’s the combination of all of it together that is what works.
Roy Jones
Wow. you know, a couple, and these may be dated terms, but, you know, I always talk about integration and I think that’s, that’s what you mean by Omnichannel. Tell me a little more about that term.
Donna Lucas
Yeah, I think that it’s each of the channel’s kind of following up with each other, right? If you think about it, when someone gets a piece of mail in their mail, right, they may or may not open it, but they may remember the photo on the envelope. They may or may not open it. Then they see something in their email inbox. And then a little bit later, they’re on Instagram, they see something. They might be on Facebook or they’re on X (formerly Twitter) or whatever. They see a post there.
They’re then on LinkedIn later that day because it’s a business thing and they see a post there. All of a sudden it’s like, Joni and friends, where are they? They must be doing something really interesting. Now I want to go back and I want to start looking, right? So do they go back? Do they find it on Instagram or do they just go to their inbox? But now you have a presence in their life wherever they are living. And I’d even add, you know, connected TV, the Connected TV (CTV) ads to that because they’re all targeted, right? So now they saw something on Instagram, it’s now going to be targeted to them on LinkedIn,
It’s going to come up on their feed in their Connected TV (CTV) when they’re streaming television. It’s about how you link all the channels together. When we do it, it’ll be similar stories. It might even be the same story that they see, bits and pieces of that same story in different areas. They may see different parts of the ministry, but we try and make sure that we connect them.
So if we’re starting a campaign and it starts with mail and it goes to email and it goes to direct messaging, I think that it all has to work together and they have to understand this brand is bigger than what I initially saw, right? I’m continuing to see them. They’re continuing to be in front of my face. And if we go back to that 23.7 number, if I’m not doing it, someone else is going to be there.
Roy Jones
Moving from one channel to the next. that what you mean by dripping? Yeah.
Donna Lucas
I do. Well, I think that there’s two ways that we use a drip and it might be channel to channel, different channels, but also an email. It’s about really looking and segmenting the people that you’re emailing. What did they do? How did they respond to that first email? Did they not even open it? If they didn’t open it, that means they didn’t see the message. So is there a different subject line and I’ll drip it out to them in a different subject line or…
it was did they open it but they didn’t act so maybe we change the call to action and it’s really looking at what the donor is telling me by their action especially in email. They’re telling me something they’re communicating with me by their action and I think that’s one of the things that I mean in email when I talk about Drip but then it is about how you drip it to each of the other channels. Is it the same campaign?
Is it a different element of the same story? Are we telling the story of a wheelchair recipient? And in each of the different channels, we’re kind of expanding on that story as it hits them. And using the algorithms to allow us to do that and setting our keywords and setting all the SEO functions so that they are finding the right person with that message.
Roy Jones
very insightful. Frequency is key in this economy. The worst thing people could do is to scale that back right now, correct?
Donna Lucas
Absolutely. think that historically, whether it’s fundraising or just marketing and sales in general, that used to be the first place people cut their budgets. It’s the worst place to cut your budget. When you’re in a situation where you’re seeing fundraising drop a little bit, that’s not the time to cut that budget. That is the time to lean into it. That is the time to maybe test some new strategies and put some investment in maybe something a little bit different so that you can
You can be running your key strategy, but you’ve got side by side these little tests of some new things that you’re trying with a small audience, and you can see that side by side reaction. And I think that in times like this, our creativity shouldn’t make us stop and pivot our whole approach, but our creativity should be reaching out with new test strategies of different ways of communicating with people in small segments to see how that works.
before you go and upset your Apple cart and start doing something completely different, because that sends a message to your donors too. If they start to see something radically different, it can make them stop in a good way if it’s done strategically, but it also can cause confusion. You can lose confidence with your donors if you change so dramatically so quickly.
Roy Jones
Wow. I love that. Well, it has been an amazing time, Donna. We are out of time. It’s been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much, for joining us today and sharing your insights and guidance. If our listeners wanted to find out more about your ministry or reach out directly to you, how would they get in touch with you? How would they do that? Sure.
Donna Lucas
Well, our website is Joniandfriends.org. That’s easy to find. They can private message me on LinkedIn,, Roy, or email is always an option and maybe you can drop that in the notes, the email address, but that’s always an easy way to get a hold of me. I do look at LinkedIn so they can private message me on LinkedIn, I’m happy to connect with them from that perspective.
Roy Jones
Great. And so on LinkedIn, it’s just, it’s just Donna Lucas. Fantastic. Well, Donna, thank you so much,. It is just, I’m so blessed, honored. I first met Joni in 1977. That’s been a while ago. This has been a blast from the past for me, but also a blast into the future. The kind of vision casting that you do with your team and with your marketing strategies is just so inspirational.
Donna Lucas
Donna Lucas, yeah.
Roy Jones
I want to close just by encouraging our listeners to please, please, please reach out to fitfundraising.com. Last year, we helped more than 300 nonprofits with free fundraising counsel. And whether it is a pro bono campaign or just a specific counseling hours, we are here to help. We do have 15 or 20 paying customers and most of those started out as, as,
somebody that asks for free fundraising counsel. So I don’t want to hide that from anybody. We are in the business of making money, but we’re in the business of helping people. You know, I’m going to still down this term here. We’d love you to be part of our ministry. Again, thank you so much,. Thanks for joining us here on the Fit Fundraising Podcast. We’ll see you next time.
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